The story of Brendan, Tommy, and their father is set against the backdrop of MMA (mixed martial arts). Is the violence in the world of MMA good? Is it bad? Should you watch it as entertainment or should you condemn it? Explain your answer.
How is the violence treated in the film? Is it glamorized? Is it condemned? Does the Bible have anything to say about violence?
Is it ok for you to compete in MMA? For that matter is it ok to wrestle or play football? Can the Bible help us think through these issues? How? Where?
These questions are where I spent today while watching this movie with you.
ReplyDeleteThe beginning of my thought process is that being a part of violent sports like Football, Boxing, or MMA has everything to do with where God has gifted you. In alot of ways, guys that God has given talents for these things need to use them to the fullest.
I always find myself going back to God choosing to wrestle with Jacob (all the way to a broken hip). The passage in Genesis indicates to me that God brings the struggle to the person in a way they understand it-- in that case (and maybe several others) God seems willing to sponsor the violence.
I skipped the first 5 questions that Mr. Scott asked. I'll be back to speak to those after I see other comments on the subject!
I think MMA is a terrible sport .In fact it should be illegal! I know in real life people do this for a living, but just like in the movie when Brandon's wife said," I thought we agreed on this already, we don't want our kids to have a father who gets beat up for a living." I know those were not her exact words ,but I do agree with her.
ReplyDeletePlease enter your name. Thank you.
DeleteThat post was by a.j., so have there rest of the blogs
DeleteI don't think mma is good to watch for entertainment because when you are watching it you are supporting it and mma is saying that you can beat up other people to make money. In this film I think the boxing was glamorized and not condemned because these peoples lives were all about it
ReplyDeleteOK... I think you are on to something. Does the Bible help support your thoughts?
DeleteHonestly I don’t really enjoy watching people beat each other up, and there could be many reasons why someone would do that. I do remember the bible saying that what ever you do, do it for the glory of God. I looked in the bible for anything on violence and I found Ezekiel 45:9 and it says: “put away violence and oppression” so I guess that the bible is saying no, but I think that if you are doing it for the right reason and glorifying God while doing it that you are fine to do it. But that is what I think I am not really sure how to explain this?
ReplyDeleteI also think that a football tackle is different than boxing, football tackling is just to stop someone or get the football. Boxing is to hurt that person until they cant fight back.
ReplyDeleteAre we as Americans in a dangerous place when it comes to violence? I watched how some of you had big smiles on your faces when you watched Tommy knock out one of his opponents. It seems as though as a culture we want more and more violence. We crave blood in our movies, in our video games, and on the athletic fields we play on. Does our nation need to repent of our bloodlust? Have we gone too far? Should we condemn the movie Warrior because of the violence? Should we stop playing sports like football?
ReplyDeleteOwen Stratchen of Christianity Today wrote the following in an article just a month ago:
Football, more than any other mainstream American sport, depends on violence—the cultivation of violent instincts, the use of violence in the moment, and the game yields positive reinforcement after successful acts of violence.
Is Stratchen right or wrong?
Feel free to respond to any of these questions/ideas.
I think Stratchen is wrong. Football is not the most violent sport, i would say MMA, boxing, wrestling, etc. are the most violent. In football your not intentionally trying to injure someone your just trying to get the ball or trying to stop them from scoring. Now in boxing, MMA, wrestling, etc. you can't say you aren't trying to hurt your opponent because that's the only way you can win the match.
DeleteTo answer Mr.Scott's second question, we have way to far. How is MMA worshipping God in anyway? I guess you could say that they are worshipping God with there talents. But they are using them in a bad way. And they think nothing of execpted when they think they are about to die. Like I said before, MMA should be illegal period.
DeleteFootball on defense is you're basically trying to stop the other team from scoring the touchdown by tackling them. We're not trying to injure them because injuries are part of the game, they're a part of every sport, they're a part of life. We just have to live through them the best we can. MMA is a sport where you actually try to injure the person so much and that is the only way to win the match.
DeleteI wouldnt want to watch MMA, I think the only reason why some of us enjoyed the movie is because you know Brendon and Tommys story. When you watch MMA fighters you don't know there story so all you see when watching it is some tough guys beating eachother up. I also think this movie could have been better if it glorifed God. I also think more people would enjoy watching it if it did, but in the movie it did not glorified God.
ReplyDeleteI persnally don't think MMA is bad. I think it is fine to watch,a nd our minds are not being poisoned by watching. The reason the brothers started participating in this sport in the first place was to make money, provide for themselves, and in Brenden's case, provide for his family. I do not think it is dishonoring God. You can honor God in anything, including Mixed Martial Arts. There is a MMA fighter and he has a website that is called Christian MMA Social Network. It has members who are MMA fighters who share their faith and honor God. So you can honor God in Mixed Martial Arts.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Benjamin. People can definitely glorify God in ALMOST everything they do, but I do think the story was sort of messed up because every time something bad happened the brothers fell back to MMA fighting and not God. I personally wasn’t too excited about the fighting, but I was one the people with a smile on my face mostly because it was an underdog story. Tommy, the nobody, was going up against the MMA celebrities or world known winners, and he was walking up to them and winning with one punch. That wowed me, hence the smiling effect. After, the fight the announcers usually made some funny remark, probably resulting in more smiling plus laughing. Overall I still wouldn’t watch MMA on TV.
DeleteI agree with Benjamin and Nathan when they say MMA isn't bad. I agree that it isn't the best sport as far as violence goes, yet Gods blesses people with different gifts everyday. If your gift is to fight someone in the ring to provide for your family then you use that gift to the best of your ability, and glorify God with it. I know people disagree with me and think how could you have a sport that hurts people like that, but the fighters are choosing to do this. When fighters step out into the ring most of the time they are fighting someone they don't know, and the fight is nothing personal. If is just two men trying to make money then allow them to use there gifts, and most of the time the fighters will walk away with no hard feelings. Unless the men are doing the sport for self revenge which would not be glorifying God in their talents in the sport. Even in the movie it showed how the "Awful sport" could reunite the relationship between two brothers, and bring joy and happiness to those giving there best ability in the sport.
DeleteTo respond to M. Willians response about MMA being bad compared to football, they aren't really that different. They are both competetive sports and they can both hurt people. But you can glorify God in both of them. The truth is football can be just as glorifing to the Lord as Mixed Martial Arts.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's okay to do any of these sports, but football isn't as bad as MMA and wrestling. In football all your doing is tackle someone to a) try and get the ball and b) stop the person with the ball from getting a touchdown. In MMA your beating the person until you knock them out. In wrestling your also beating your opponent, but instead of knocking them out your trying to pin them down.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Madeline and Val, football maybe violent, but that isn't it's original purpose. Football started off as players trying to move the ball down the field and score a touchdown. Then, players started getting aggressive and began tackling each other for the ball, this is kind of like the sin or fall in the sport. Whereas MMA fighting is trying to injure the other person, which is not what the Bible wants us to do. The Bible says love your enemies, and in MMA, you don't even have to be fighting your enemy, you're just trying to hurt a stranger.I think as Americans, we are beginning to get to into violent sports, but at the same time we just rely on it because we like the thought of getting to see someone we are cheering for win, and this goes for any sport.
DeleteI see where you all are coming from, but I have to disagree. No sport would be created if its purpose was to hurt someone. If there was, no one would want to play it. I also believe that no matter what you are doing, you can glorify God in it. God also gives us talents and wants us to use the gifts he has given us. Someone could be really good at MMA, and can glorify God by participating in it.
DeleteI've been thinking on this quite a bit, and am going to throw some ideas out there. I am totally in favor of sport in general, and martial arts in particular. My experience with this in general is that martial arts are very personal. Meaning that you can't have sport without an opponent. There is a deeply humanizing effect to a contact sport where both men are going through the struggle. You become very aware of (and experience empathy for) your opponent. We can talk about these emotions/ characteristics as Christian traits anytime! I think these sports can be windows to spiritual growth in so many ways.
ReplyDeleteMy struggle right now is whether Christians can watch these really violent sports safely/ morally. Here's what I mean: The empathy and awareness come to you through understanding the pain of the struggle. I think that the movie screen removes us from the empathy. At some point when you start being removed from the struggle-- it just becomes bloodsport. I'm not sure that it has redeeming value as removed bystanders. I can't feel good about dehumanizing people.
In fairness to the movie, It tried to humanize Tommy and Brendan, but there is just no way to deal with poverty, alcoholism, broken families, war scars, the pain of training, and intimate violence through a screen.
I think that I also don't like watching people get beat up. I think that mma is a lot more violent and aggressive then football or soccer or really any other sport. I think that like what Mr. Muehleisen said, the sport in general is very personal and the people who are doing it aren't out there to enjoy the sport and have fun doing it, they really want to hurt each other. Unlike football where people are tackling each other for the ball or to stop someone and not to seriously injure each other. I think that the movie doesn't really condemn the violence either. It kind of makes it look really interesting and you find yourself starting to root for a certain competitor and really wanting that person to beat the other competitor up.
ReplyDeleteEver since I can remember, my brothers have wrestled and played tackle football. Wrestling is one of the things I have been more numbed to over the years because it has always been a part of my life. I know that wrestling and football aren't exactly the same thing, but they have the same idea: a battle against your opponent one on one. I enjoy watching wrestling, and I don't think it is bad because in everything you do you can glorify God. So, if you are glorifying God in competing or watching, it is ok.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rebekah. I do not think wrestling is a bad sport to be in. This how some people show their talents, this is how some people glorify God. Not everyone is musically gifted or is an artist, this is where some people shine. Wrestling is like other sports, trying to beat your opponent, so does that mean soccer, baseball and tennis are bad because you are trying to beat your opponent? In wrestling you are only trying to beat your opponent a little differently.
DeleteI agree, MMA can be a sport. It can be a sport because everyone has a talent. Everyone also has something they like to do. If MMA is something they like to do they can can do it as long as you are glorifying God in it. I do think it is brutal and not a very clean sport but I don't mind watching it because of all the action. If the two fighters are not being dirty and they are glorifying God in the sport then its fine. It should be a sport. I think the violence is treated fine in this movie. Brendan was just there to fight. He wasn't being dirty or anything about it. In the bible there is a bunch of wrestling and fighting. Some for the glory of God. Me and my brother wrestle all the time for fun. He liked to fight he needed the money so I think it was all right.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Nathan. A good clean fight is not sinful. However, when you begin to have the mindset of destroying your opponent and are hitting them for the pure pleasure of beating someone up, then there is definitely something wrong their. It's important to look at the intentions of the heart and make sure they are pure and biblical. As long as you are doing it for that right reasons it is a beautiful thing to glorify God to the best of your ability with the talents He has blessed you with. So I believe MMA can definitely be God honoring. Some of the opponents in warrior that threw a punch even after the fight was over, I believe did not have biblical intentions and were therefore committing a sin. But Brendan and Tommy did not fall in that category and were perfectly fine in their reasons for fighting. Also, I think it is perfectly appropriate to watch and enjoy MMA. I think God would want us to support them in their gifts.
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DeleteI agree with Ashley that whether mma is good or bad depends on the purpose of the fighters. If they fight to support a family, help the poor, and/or glorify the Lord, it is good. But if it is to be rich and have fame, it is bad because you are causing extraordinary pain to others for your wants not needs. I also agree with Ashley it also depends on the mood of the fighters. If when they fight, they just want it to end quickly, that’s okay. But if they beat up people and take pleasure, they are sinning. I disagree with Ashley that it is always okay to watch it. Most of the fans are actually sinning. If they are cheering on someone they like or love, that is okay. But if they watch it for bloodlust, that is sinning. I agree with Ashley that what Brendan and Tommy did is not right. Throwing punches after they won is taking pleasure in beating someone up. This goes for some other fighters too. But even though Brendan and Tommy did take pleasure, they did it mainly to help someone, whether it was the family or another family. If you want to do a violent sport like this or watch it, you have to have good intentions.
I don't really see how fighting is glorifying God in this movie. I do agree with Nate that it is usually bad to watch it. Most of the fans, I think were there to see tough guys beating less tough guys up. I think it could be okay to watch it if you are there to support the person you are rooting for, but I think, other then that, it is a sin.
Deletesrry its nathan not Ashley
DeleteI think violence is treated as honorable in this film. If you win you are rewarded and respected. It's also kind of a last resort for Brendan because he needs the money in order to maintain his house. It is definitely glamorized because MMA has consumed their lives. It's their job and how they support their family. In Psalm 144:1, it says, "...Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle." There are battles in the Bible that God supports so I think it is biblical to glorify God through MMA.
ReplyDeleteThis is a quote from Mike McKinley who believes that MMA should not be for the Christian:
ReplyDelete"Like it or not, the gospel is at least in part about weakness. It’s about the almighty becoming weak to save us. It’s about us being helpless and unable in our sins. There’s no way to Christ that doesn’t start with brokenness and an admission of impotence. Yes, Jesus is the strong man who binds the adversary, but he bound him by suffering, humiliation, and weakness."
Do you agree or disagree with his thoughts?
I don’t agree. I don’t think that the gospel is about the almighty becoming weak. I think that it is about Jesus conquering death. Jesus dying on the cross is a sign of His strength even though he may have been at His weakest point physically.
DeleteI think that God doesn't want us to hurt one another out of anger but in this case these people are signing up to fight, they have a choice. And for some people fighting is their job or their talents and God wants us to use our talents.
ReplyDeleteI think that MMA fighting is okay if you have that talent, and are using it to the best of your ability to worship God! I also think that if God calls you to do something, you should do it to the best of your ability! Wherever God calls you is where you should go!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sarah and disagree yes I believe that God doesn't want us to hurt one another,and that the people involved have a choice. I disagree with the part about how God gives us Talents for use to. Yes, god does gives us talents, but he wants us to use them in the correct manor and honor and praise him while doing so. Which we usually take for granted God gives us these talents and we misuse and abuse them like in this situation.
ReplyDeleteI think that the violence its self isn't good, but the fact that they have devoted their lives (the MMA fighters) then I would say it is to most people entertainment, but to me it's seeing and celebrating how hard they have worked and even when it gets intense or painfull that they're trying their best to stay alive and win so I would say that it's sometimes entertainment but we still need to classify it as a fight and at all costs they are trying to beat their opponent. I don't think that we should condemn it because it matters what the fighter is fighting for and what is his mindset all fighters have different goals, mindsets, etc...
ReplyDelete1 Corinthians 10:31 says, “So, whatever you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.” I believe that this verse definitely applies to all different sports. When you are watching people knock each other out or tackling each other, ask yourself if you are doing it for the glory of God or for your own pleasure. I believe that some people will say that they are watching it because they like the blood and seeing people get hurt. If that is your case, maybe you should rethink what you are watching and what for. But, if you are watching these sports and you are discerning the difference from happy and what you should be cheering for, from what is not glorifying to God and that you shouldn’t be cheering for it’s fine to watch. I don’t think it’s wrong to watch what is wrong, just don’t encourage it. I think it all depends on why you are cheering and encouraging the sport.
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with Mike McKinley. If every Christian was weak and helpless then where would the gospel go in the world? How could it go any where? Why should we be weaker when we are already as weak as it gets? We would give the name of Jesus to the world as a weak god, a helpless god, a god that they themselves could put away in a box. I believe that Jesus became weak on the cross so that the love between him and us would be as deep as it gets, as real as it gets and stay the truest love there is. God made us all to be different. Some of us he made weak and some strong, but all of us in our different ways portray God's character.
ReplyDeleteProverbs 3:6 says, “In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.” This is another verse that explains that if you do MMA fight and do all things for God and to glorify him through fighting its okay to fight. I don’t think that Brendan and Tommy are trying to fight through god, but if they were it would be better if they were. Some of the people who fought in the MMA seem like they just want to hurt people. Like how Mad Dog just wanted to rip Tommy’s head off. That isn't good in any way.
ReplyDeleteThe violence in MMA is for a living, though they might be hurting someone, but all to get the money. I know that to fight to make a living can be very hard. Also you're putting an others life in danger. The violence isn't glorified, but sort of is. MMA is for entertainment, but it if they decided to do it for money that's their problem.
ReplyDeleteI don’t agree with Mike Mckiney. I agree with what most people are saying, if you have a gift then you should use it. Yea maybe MMA might not be the best thing to watch not because it has sin but it can get gross for some people to watch. I remember Mr. Scott saying when you're playing a sport you should try your hardest for God, praise him after a good play. If the MMA fighters do that then its a good thing. Its also just a sport not as if they're fighting because they're angry.
ReplyDeleteI do think that the fighting in the movie was slightly glamorized. The movie showed how big deal of this one tournament was and how the winner would get lots and lots of money. Also, the movie showed both Tommy and Brendan as underdogs, which I liked. However, people who watch this movie may think that lots of fighters in the real MMA are underdogs, in which a lot of them are not. Usually they are just fighting for fame and the chance to intentionally hurt someone else, which is not justified through the Bible. Proverbs 24:17 says, “Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, and do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles; lest the Lord see it, and it displeases Him, and He turn away His wrath from him.” This shows God does not like to see us happy when we watch others fall. Most MMA fighters will also verbally insult others, such as Mad Dog did in the movie, and that isn't the right thing to do either. Overall, the movie exemplified the MMA world well, but in some ways, did make it seem more just than it actually can be in our world today.
ReplyDeleteIt depends on what you think. If you are fighting to win, that is okay. If you fight to take pleasure in hurting people that’s wrong. I do not think that you should watch it because it is feeding your desire for violence. Which is wrong. This is such a complicated question, it might take philosophers quite a bit of time discussing it before the true answer is revealed.
ReplyDeleteFor most of the movie, the violence was glorified. The boxers would always hit the opponent even when they fainted. This was one of the few things that I didn’t like about the movie. But towards the end, when Tommy had a broken bone, Brendan tried to avoid violence with Tommy.
Zephaniah 1:9 says God will punish the violent. So surely they are committing a sin.
I depends on what you do it for. If it is to get fame, wealth, or pleasure, it is wrong. If it is for someone who is close to you,Family God, Friends, it is good. In most sports, wanting to get fame and wealth is fine if it is not your priority in life. But mma is a very rough sport. The loser gets hurt really bad. If you want to seek fame or wealth, do it in a sport where you don’t cause intentional pain to other. Otherwise, it is very selfish. The same thing goes for wrestling. It is also a rough sport that involves hurting people. If you do it, don’t do it for yourself. Football is different, however. Even though a lot of injuries happen, it is not the point of the game. In order to win, giving the opponent a concussion is not the main goal. In this game, seeking fame and wealth is fine. You just don't idolize it.
I think the verse I mentioned helps you think through this. The verse says God will punish the violent. If you do this sport out of enjoyment, it is wrong and you are sinning. Blood lust is evil in the eyes of God. Another verse that helps is Philippians 2: 3-4. It says to do nothing out of selfish ambitions, but rather through humility. If you want fame and not want God. It will eventually be your idol. In wrestling and mma, wanting fame and wealth is selfish because you are hurting others for your own gain. In other sports, it is okay as long as it is not an idol because you are not intentionally hurting others.
ReplyDeleteI believe the violence in this film is glamorized, but yet not at the same time. It was glamorized in the competition aspect of the movie. There was a big prize offered at the end if you won and were the best fighter. In the competition, there were fans everywhere, cheering for you to punch your opponent hard enough to knock him out. Although, when Brendan fought at the bar he was suspended from his job as a teacher, making you think oh why did he do that?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Morgan. I do think the violence in this movie is glamorized. I think you can watch this sport or participate in it if you are doing it for the glory of God. I mean yes it is violent its is bloody but if you like it and you honor God in it then i think u can participate in it. I mean I am not into it but some people are so go ahead as long as its for God.
ReplyDeleteI think, in the eyes of God, the sport of MMA is terrible. We're supposed to be healers of each other. MMA is the opposite of healing. Honoring God does not mean making your opponent bleed for money. Honoring God is a lot of things, but not that. The violence in this movie is no doubt glamorized. The brothers saw it as an opportunity to help others, but everyone else, it seemed, was there to strike it rich.
ReplyDeleteI believe that what Erik is saying is true and here is some scripture to back that up. This verse does apply more to actual enemies but some of it can be applied to the MMA.
DeleteRomans 12:18-20
If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.”
I say we should condemn it because it glorifies it! It makes it seem all like "WOW! Fighting for money and praise of men!!! Me being their idol! Fun!" I think the movie condemns it because it showed the reality of it. It shows that its not all glamorous and what it cracks up to be! Now, I think it is OK to fight in the MMA if you are doing it for the glory of God!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rachel that God wants us to do everything we do to the best of our ability and he want's us to use the talents he gave us to the best of our ability. I think that if wrestling or MMA is the talent that God gave you then it''s fine to to compete in it and try your best. But if your competing in these sports because you like hurting people or you enjoy that kind of thing then God probably doesn't like that. I think that in general the sport is probably not appealing in God's eyes but I think he might understand Tommy or Brendan's situation where they are fighting for the money which they need to help out their family or friends.
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ReplyDeleteI really don’t feel like MMA sports are bad and neither is football. It all depends how you watch it. So many things in sports remind me of life. like: a football team has to work together to win the game, no one can do it by them self. It reminds me of the body of christ and how we all have to work together to do what God asks us to do, and no one can do it by himself.
I agree with M. Williams, but I don't think it depends on the way you watch it. I think it's more the way you play the game. You can play it with an attitude, or with good sportsmanship. The second choose will problem get you farther in business than the first.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Madeline, It does matter how you watch the game, but also where your heart is. If you like watching people get smashed to a pulp then you probably shouldn't watch it. But If you like watching people use their gifts its okay.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that MMA fighting is either bad or good. It depends the person that is fighting and their reason for it. I think that there are probably very seldom amounts people that are actually fighting for a good reason and/or to glorify God. I don’t believe its a bad sport, but you wouldn't think that many people actually beat up someone to glorify God. I'm not positive thats true, but fighting and hurting people to me doesn't seem like the so called, "christian" thing to do. I can't come up with an example of how someone would fight for God, but anythings possible.
ReplyDeleteMr. Scott's class is finished with the project.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Eric and Nathan said about it being wrong that we are hurting other people when the Bible really says that we are supposed to love our neighbor as ourselves and build people up not tear them down which is really what they do in this sport. I also liked how you saw that some people see as just getting the money, but the fact that Brendan redeemed the moment in the ring.
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